<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Chad,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thank you. I did indeed mean to post it directly to the list. It
was not meant to be a personal attack of any sort as your post seems to be.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> I doubt if many do “donate” to the OSF groups that ask. I’m
simply suggesting that “free” is not without some cost that is paid by someone
and should be acknowledged. Those of us that are advocating the use of open
source software and/or using it, should support it if they believe in it as a
current and long term solution. It is not free. It is Open Source.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Libraries in Ohio are not poor as compared to other states. Many
receive grants and donations in addition to state funds which I know are going
down. If your institution budgets costs, then there is surely a cost/benefit
analysis for any expenditure. Budget in some funds for a donation in the same
amount you would have provided for a MS purchase instead of freeloading so that
those that<u> truly</u> can’t afford it can enjoy the Open Source software for
free. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Being a business consultant, we would suggest a cost/benefit
analysis should be done, especially when funds are declining. I have not seen
anyone’s analysis that truly considered the costs with everything considered,
including support, library chartered goals and public interest, that came out
positively in favor of Open Source. I’d just like to see someone’s real life
analysis. All of this talk of “free” makes some of us look like we saved a ton
of money to buy books instead of MS Software. Did we really?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Thomas Mason</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>, MCSE, AANG, Sr. Consultant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Management Assistance,
Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Manufacturing,
Academic and Government Solutions</span></b><b><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>"We make
it happen for you!"</span></i><i><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'><a
href="mailto:masontj@manasst.com">masontj@manasst.com</a> 440.355.6962
Fax:440-355-4355</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> oplintech-bounces@oplin.org
[mailto:oplintech-bounces@oplin.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chad Neeper<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> oplintech@oplin.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OPLINTECH] Open Office Software<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Mr. Mason, I will reply to this comment on-list since it
appears that you may have misdirected this comment directly to me rather than
to the list.<br>
<br>
Many open source projects <u>do</u> ask for donations in the form of code, cash
to help fund a server or web site, donations to the community by way of peer
support, documentation donations, etc. You are, however, <u>in no way</u>
obliged to donate to any particular project regardless of whether or not you
use the software.<br>
<br>
If you re-read the OpenOffice.org <a
href="http://download.openoffice.org/2.3.1/contribute.html?product=OpenOffice.org&os=winwjre&lang=en-US&version=2.3.1">contribution
request page</a>, you'll find that donating money is actually the <i>last</i>
option that they suggest. Personally, while I use OpenOffice extensively and
while I encourage my schools and libraries to use it, I have not donated a
single penny to the project, nor have I donated code or documentation. Aside
from perhaps asking a question or two in the peer support groups, I have not
even contributed much to the OOo peer support structures. Do I, as you say,
"<i>freeload off of someone else's efforts without monetary assistance to
them?</i>" Yes. ...and..."<i>Shame on you if you did.</i>"
I don't feel shame about that.<br>
<br>
I do, however, embrace the concept of open source software. Because I am of
limited financial means (as are many of the public libraries on this list),
because my time is highly constrained, because the programming languages I know
are far obsolete, because I donate a considerable amount of time and technical
services to public libraries and schools (a direct impact on my
"free" time), and because I'm not a good web developer I don't offer
money, code, or web development to any open source project. I am, however, very
good at understanding the nuances and interactions of the software I use,
troubleshooting problems and assisting others. My contributions are in the form
of peer support. Further, I also acknowledge that I am incapable of usefully
contributing to every project that represents all of the open source software
that I use. I don't contribute to the OpenOffice project because it is already
amazingly well supported. I instead choose to focus my energies on projects
that are less well supported. This is the concept and beauty of open source
software!<br>
<br>
So...I am very happy to know that you would feel obligated to donate to
"the cause." Every bit helps, money and otherwise!<br>
<br>
Out of curiosity, though, have any other libraries reading this thread contributed
to an open source project? If so, in what way? <br>
<br>
As for the cost benefit analysis, I would guess that this is best accomplished
on your own and for individual scenarios. Every situation is unique, with
unique parameters. Considering the wide number of parameters, such an analysis
done for another organization would likely not align properly with yours or
your clients'. Take, for instance, some of the later comments regarding
training. Mr. Slone suggests that "the learning curve is so negligible, it
shouldn't even be a factor in a decision regarding MS and OO." But that's
at <i>his</i> library. It could be a huge factor elsewhere. <br>
<br>
My 2 cents,<br>
Chad<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-----------------------<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Chad Neeper<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Senior Systems Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Level 9 Networks<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>740-548-8070 (voice)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>866-214-6607 (fax)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>-- Full LAN/WAN consulting services --<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-- Specialized in libraries and schools --<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Tom Mason wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’ll just note that when I downloaded my “free” OO, I was asked
to “donate” to the cost of writing, improving, supporting, and distribution of
OO. Since we were simply evaluating it with no plan to integrate and use
it at the moment, we didn’t donate anything. If we were to evaluate it
successfully, and roll it out to our employees, I would feel obligated to
“donate” to the cause in the interests of fairness since we were benefiting
from their labor. Who knows, we may want them to upgrade to support the
docx formats of 2007. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m wondering what some of you “donated” to OO’s development
request since you are actively using it for the benefit of your library,
facility or business. Did you figure the “donation” cost into the
cost/benefit analysis, do you amortize it as you would the price you paid to
MS, or do you write it off as a charity contribution? Or did you figure
you’d freeload off of someone else’s efforts without monetary assistance to
them? Shame on you if you did.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I still have not seen a cost benefit analysis of “open source”,
which I don’t think literally or fairly translates to “free software”.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Thomas Mason</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>, MCSE, AANG, Sr. Consultant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Management
Assistance, Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Manufacturing,
Academic and Government Solutions</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>"We make
it happen for you!"</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'><a
href="mailto:masontj@manasst.com">masontj@manasst.com</a> 440.355.6962
Fax:440-355-4355</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>