[OPLINTECH] Open Office Software/training costs etc..

[Ed Liddle]

I do not decide what staff use to get their job done. That is not part
of my job. My job is to make sure the computers and the network work so
patrons and staff can accomplish what they need to do. From reading what
other people have wrote about the use of open office in a library, it
sounds like some libraries have both openoffice and microsoft office
installed on staff machines as well as public machines.  

I am a little perplexed about the term techno stress. I have not heard
of that before .. maybe its because of my young age of 30, maybe its
because I grew up in the sticks .... Is it similar to fear of something
new and/or unknown? Like not wanting a "new" car because your used to
being able to fix your "old" car that has no computer, a carburetor, non
ant-lock brakes and maybe is not required to pass an emissions test (if
you are into that kinda of thing), or similar to not eating at a new
restaurant because you are satisfied with the food at the restaurant you
frequent most ? 

< rant >
I do realize that if a person uses something new they will have to learn
how to use it. If its something new required by an employer then the
employer would have an expense of "training" whether its formal classes,
classes taught in house, or the time that an employee spends learning
how to use it while at work. This applies to a lot of things, not just
technology related things. For instance I know someone who is a
financial aid adviser for a college. This person uses microsoft office
on the work station at work. The person taught their self how to use
microsoft access to make their job easier. This makes the person more
productive at the job. The persons employer paid for the access training
since the person read a book about it and learned on work time. This
person has also shown some coworkers how to use access. The time spent
doing this is also a training cost. 
This person also has to learn about new regulations and changes in
regulations for federal financial aid every year. This is very important
to the employer so they are in compliance when they receive federal
financial aid for their students. If they fail to be in compliance they
could lose all the federal financial aid they receive for their
students. The person's employer pays for this training every year. Its
part of what has to be done. The access use is an example of technical
training, but learning new and changed financial aid regulations is not
technical from an electronics point of view. With this said I look at
the cost of training as a moot point since no matter what new thing is
implemented people have to learn how to use or apply the new thing.
Since training can be considered learning how to use something new or
learning how to use something old better, one could always argue or
figure training costs using what ever method they want to. I have
learned how to use linux at home. I have spent countless hours looking
up information on how to use linux distributions more efficiently. Since
I value my time at $100 per hour and roughly figure I have spent 200
hours over a period of time doing this. The training cost for me to use
linux is $20,000. If I spent the same amount of time learning about
Vista Ultimate at home my total training costs would be $20,399.99
assuming I did not buy any books on it and already had hardware that
could run it. I would save $399.99 in training costs by using a linux
distribution.    
< / rant > 

Also I have to admit that I am not a teacher, professor, trainer, etc..
That is not part of my job so I usually do not think much about how
everyone learns differently. In my opinion a public library is not a
place where a person can get a formal education. The library I work for
does not offer classes in anything that can be transferred and
recognized by a college or university. The library does have a lot of
information which people can use to learn for personal growth and gain. 

-Ed Liddle 


On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 09:05 -0500, Mann, James H. wrote:
> Ed
> You're young and may have never heard of "techno stress" LOL.
> IMHO if you have staff who wants to use OOo, Office 2007, or Macs for
> that matter go for it.
> If you want to offer patrons an open source cd so they can breathe more
> life into their older home computers....bless you.
> But I'd be a little cautious about unwinding 11 years of techno stress
> on the part of the public service staff by moving away from Microsoft.
> This isn't to say that you couldn't do a series of programs to retrain
> your staff but than again, and I think that it's what Tom is saying, is
> that you're into the "free like free kittens" paradigm.
> 
> BTW: Have I ever shared the true and expensive story of $100 Kitty?
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Jim Mann
> 
> Technology Coordinator
> 
> Greene County Public Library
> 
> Xenia Ohio 45385
> 
> (937)352-4000 x1210
> 
> mailto: jmann at gcpl.lib.oh.us
> 
> Humor is always based on a modicum of truth Have you ever heard a joke
> about a father-in-law? -- Dick Clark
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oplintech-bounces at oplin.org [mailto:oplintech-bounces at oplin.org]
> On Behalf Of Ed Liddle
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:53 AM
> To: masontj at manasst.com
> Cc: 'Chad Neeper (list)'; oplintech at oplin.org
> Subject: Re: [OPLINTECH] Open Office Software
> 
> What is the cost of retraining staff to use office 2007 vs OOo or heck
> even retraining staff to use vista vs linux vs mac instead of windows
> xp?  How much time will be taken up from answering questions from
> patrons about using office 2007 vs using OOo ? That would be just as
> interesting for me to look at. 
> Reference librarians get paid on an hourly basis to answer questions. It
> is after all part of their job. I am not sure what difference the
> questions make. Some questions are easy to answer, some are harder. I
> don't see where the cost spent on answering office application questions
> is any different than other questions. 
> 
> I tend to think that something as common as an office suite should not
> require much cost to train someone how to use it if they have used other
> office suites and are familiar with how to use a computer, access the
> internet etc. If you decide to use a different office suite do you
> enroll in training classes at a place like new horizons or a class at
> your local community college to learn how to use it? 
> I personally just start using it, exploring where everything is in the
> menus and use the help menu or online help I find from using google to
> do what I need to get done. 
> 
>  For library patrons who have never touched a computer or an office
> suite the "training" would be the same regardless which office suite
> they use. Personally I think it would be more beneficial to train a
> patron to use something that they could obtain for free to use at home
> on their PC rather than teach them how to use something they may not be
> able to afford for their PC at home, or may obtain illegally to use on
> their home computer.
> 
> -Ed Liddle  
> 
> On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 20:30 -0500, Tom Mason wrote:
> > To further add a business slant, does someone have a cost
> justification
> > spreadsheet comparing the 5 year rotational cost of MS office versus
> the
> > support cost of OO?  We change our customer's version of Office when
> they
> > demand it or every 4-5 years.  At $60 AE cost per PC, that's $12-15
> per PC
> > per year.  That's also a high cost compared to larger volume purchases
> such
> > as Cleveland Public may make.
> > 
> > I don't know the Open Office compatibility well, but I assume it works
> well
> > from Chad's comments.  
> > All schools train students on MS Office use currently and most
> businesses
> > use MS Office(95%?). I'm just trying to figure out why and how the
> library
> > can pay someone to re-train the staff, patrons, students who need Word
> > because of teacher's requirements, etc, for the less than $15 it costs
> per
> > year per pc or less for education/library customers.  
> > 
> > I don't think there is a justification for the time spent making the
> change,
> > answering questions about versions, compatibility and so on, so I'd
> like to
> > see the cost/benefit analysis that someone has done that includes
> Reference
> > staff time, support staff time, consultant time, and user irritation
> time
> > (with having to do something new).  Based on past experience, I would
> > anticipate an average of 60 min staff/support per day per 20 pc's,
> answering
> > questions, retraining new staff, explaining to staff and patrons, etc.
> 20
> > pc's cost is $300 per year for licenses for MS Office.  A librarian is
> > conservatively $50k cost per year with benefits.  1 hour is roughly
> $24 x 52
> > = $1250/year versus $300 MS office Cost.
> > 
> > Is this a good subject for study, for techs to know about and continue
> > watching? Of course.  However, the extra costs may be better spent on
> books
> > or new PC's, more bandwidth or fulfilling more user requests.  No
> survey
> > I've seen says the public is demanding OO vs MS Office.
> > 
> > Btw We don't sell MS Office or MS software to libraries other than the
> XP
> > OEM we put on the new custom computers we build.  We've been
> supporting
> > libraries for over 15 years in multiple states.
> > 
> > As Chad says "fwiw".
> > 
> > Thomas Mason, MCSE, AANG, Sr. Consultant
> > Management Assistance, Inc.
> > Manufacturing, Academic and Government Solutions
> > "We make it happen for you!"
> > masontj at manasst.com 440.355.6962 Fax:440-355-4355
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: oplintech-bounces at oplin.org [mailto:oplintech-bounces at oplin.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Chad Neeper (list)
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:39 PM
> > To: oplintech at oplin.org
> > Subject: Re: [OPLINTECH] Open Office Software
> > 
> > To add a business slant:  I've been exclusively using OOo for business
> 
> > for four+ years now. There's no going back to MS Office or Corel
> Office 
> > (both of which I've used extensively in the last ten+ years).
> Especially 
> > within OOo Calc (think Excel or Quattro Pro), I can attest to the 
> > completeness of the feature set and compatibility OOo has with MS 
> > Office. OOo is pretty much a no-brainer compared with MS Office.
> > 
> > When it comes to the schools and libraries I support, I've been slowly
> 
> > introducing OOo. I think Chauncey's comments about staff adoption are 
> > spot-on. Some of the staff take to it right away with no problems. 
> > Others are resistant to change and don't want to take any time at all
> to 
> > adjust to a different program, even though the OOo interface is
> similar 
> > to that of pre-2007 MS Office.
> > 
> > For what it's worth,
> > Chad
> > 
> > -----------------------
> > Chad Neeper
> > Senior Systems Engineer
> > 
> > Level 9 Networks
> > 740-548-8070 (voice)
> > 866-214-6607 (fax)
> > 
> > --   Full LAN/WAN consulting services   --
> > -- Specialized in libraries and schools --
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > shivelri at oplin.org wrote:
> > > Hello, I am the IT Specialist at Greenville Public Library and we
> have 
> > > started to use OO for some of our patron and staff computers. I was 
> > > curious as to how many other libraries are using OO and what their 
> > > experience has been with it? Do the patrons get along fine with it? 
> > > Does the staff?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >   
> > 
> 
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